Comments on: Transition costs to teach Science/Maths in English – 317 million for teachers, 2.21 BILLION for.. computers? http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/ a new dawn for malaysia Tue, 16 Mar 2010 02:01:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Malaysia fares well in UNESCO survey « EducateDeviate http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-113864 Malaysia fares well in UNESCO survey « EducateDeviate Fri, 30 May 2008 02:11:41 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-113864 [...] It seems that the priorities may be a little misplaced. From Nat Tan quoting Malaysiakini (emphasis Nat’s): The government has spent a total of RM3.2 billion over [...] [...] It seems that the priorities may be a little misplaced. From Nat Tan quoting Malaysiakini (emphasis Nat’s): The government has spent a total of RM3.2 billion over [...]

]]> By: limacuan http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-111936 limacuan Sat, 17 May 2008 13:28:12 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-111936 Unless the implementation of the project involves implmentation of a region based ICT infrastructure setup, you can never spend 2 billion ringgit on computer systems. With that kind of budget, you can expect to see at least a full-fledged data center and not just PCs being sent to certain schools. 2 billion for buying computers? Its more like 2 billion of cold hard cash being sorted out by opportunitists. Save that kind of money for free higher level education scholarships, build more universities, train up the teaching force! Thats how you will breed a new generation of scholars. Unless the implementation of the project involves implmentation of a region based ICT infrastructure setup, you can never spend 2 billion ringgit on computer systems. With that kind of budget, you can expect to see at least a full-fledged data center and not just PCs being sent to certain schools. 2 billion for buying computers? Its more like 2 billion of cold hard cash being sorted out by opportunitists. Save that kind of money for free higher level education scholarships, build more universities, train up the teaching force! Thats how you will breed a new generation of scholars.

]]> By: Jeremiah http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-111491 Jeremiah Thu, 15 May 2008 03:47:45 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-111491 Once again, the Msian government has failed in this matter by confusing itself between ends and means. The objective of teaching and learning Science and Maths in English is very wise and prudent. But the methods/means of reaching that goal are obviously wrong. More funds should be allocated to training teachers and importing foreign English teachers to teach good English at all levels (urban and rural). We pay high salaries for foreign musicians in the so-called Malaysian Philharmonic Orchestra, why not import foreign teachers to develop an English-speaking and writing culture in our schools and universities? yes, the Internet is one of the solutions. But paying so much money for computers is not the right policy tool. We should tell the politicans to keep the politics and nationalism out of this basic education issue just as we can succeed in international trade without engaging in politics. Science and maths are important because both these subjects promotes logical and clear thinking habits and teaching them in English enables Msians to interact, research and absorb intelligent ideas in these fields (and beyond) for the nation's benefit. So it is not a question of "poor implementation"of a well-intentioned goal. The tools are wrong, the mindset is unfocused and the funds allocation are misallocated in the wrong places. Once again, the Msian government has failed in this matter by confusing itself between ends and means.

The objective of teaching and learning Science and Maths in English is very wise and prudent. But the methods/means of reaching that goal are obviously wrong. More funds should be allocated to training teachers and importing foreign English teachers to teach good English at all levels (urban and rural). We pay high salaries for foreign musicians in the so-called Malaysian Philharmonic Orchestra, why not import foreign teachers to develop an English-speaking and writing culture in our schools and universities?

yes, the Internet is one of the solutions. But paying so much money for computers is not the right policy tool. We should tell the politicans to keep the politics and nationalism out of this basic education issue just as we can succeed in international trade without engaging in politics.

Science and maths are important because both these subjects promotes logical and clear thinking habits and teaching them in English enables Msians to interact, research and absorb intelligent ideas in these fields (and beyond) for the nation’s benefit.

So it is not a question of “poor implementation”of a well-intentioned goal. The tools are wrong, the mindset is unfocused and the funds allocation are misallocated in the wrong places.

]]> By: johnleemk http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-111428 johnleemk Wed, 14 May 2008 19:48:37 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-111428 I was part of the first cohort to study science and maths in English at the secondary school level - I've been to two different schools so I guess I have a broader view than most students of how this worked out. If I recall correctly, the stated purpose of using computers so extensively was precisely to address the poor standard of English among faculty members - the idea was that Powerpoint-ish presentations and other videos would supplement, if not replace the teachers. Obvously, the whole thing was a rip-off. In rural areas, I don't think anyone would have benefited from the programme, considering that the standard of English instruction in our school system in the first place is so atrocious that unless you have outside assistance, your standard of English will never be good enough to handle learning science and maths in English. In urban areas, many and sometimes most students have better proficiency in English than the teachers, rendering the whole thing superfluous. English-ising the curriculum is probably a good idea, but the way this has been done is simply atrocious, and if you ask me made the situation much worse than it has been before. Parents and educationists are more turned off than ever by promoting the usage of English in the curriculum, and no students have really benefited from the change except the really really select few whose English is so much better than their Malay that they would have been at a disadvantage under the old system. I was part of the first cohort to study science and maths in English at the secondary school level – I’ve been to two different schools so I guess I have a broader view than most students of how this worked out. If I recall correctly, the stated purpose of using computers so extensively was precisely to address the poor standard of English among faculty members – the idea was that Powerpoint-ish presentations and other videos would supplement, if not replace the teachers.

Obvously, the whole thing was a rip-off. In rural areas, I don’t think anyone would have benefited from the programme, considering that the standard of English instruction in our school system in the first place is so atrocious that unless you have outside assistance, your standard of English will never be good enough to handle learning science and maths in English. In urban areas, many and sometimes most students have better proficiency in English than the teachers, rendering the whole thing superfluous.

English-ising the curriculum is probably a good idea, but the way this has been done is simply atrocious, and if you ask me made the situation much worse than it has been before. Parents and educationists are more turned off than ever by promoting the usage of English in the curriculum, and no students have really benefited from the change except the really really select few whose English is so much better than their Malay that they would have been at a disadvantage under the old system.

]]> By: I Malaysian http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-111410 I Malaysian Wed, 14 May 2008 18:05:03 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-111410 This is really absurd. How could it be? Hishamuddin needs to go public to provide complete detail on this extravagance. If this is how they run this country, than our country will surely go bankrupt as claimed by Najib but not for reason he claimed; it would be for inefficient management by minsters of various portfolios. This is really absurd. How could it be? Hishamuddin needs to go public to provide complete detail on this extravagance. If this is how they run this country, than our country will surely go bankrupt as claimed by Najib but not for reason he claimed; it would be for inefficient management by minsters of various portfolios.

]]> By: Anak http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-111385 Anak Wed, 14 May 2008 13:48:36 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-111385 Could any tell the amount of change from English medium to so called Bahasa Malaysia ( God knows where on earth this language comes from ? ) Why putting so much of focus on the teaching of Maths and Science. Even if they don't change the medium, they do have to invest in the education, afterall, we are the smart schools pinoir, Malaysia even helps Laos to set up Smart Schools in the capital city. Could any tell the amount of change from English medium to so called Bahasa Malaysia ( God knows where on earth this language comes from ? )

Why putting so much of focus on the teaching of Maths and Science.

Even if they don’t change the medium, they do have to invest in the education, afterall, we are the smart schools pinoir, Malaysia even helps Laos to set up Smart Schools in the capital city.

]]> By: int http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-111378 int Wed, 14 May 2008 13:05:06 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-111378 I think there is a term for this kind of tactic, but it slips my mind now... not pork barreling, but something similar... where funds are allocated ostensibly in principle for one purpose, but in practice actually used to further a different agenda. In this case it seems the apparent goal was to introduce a change of medium of instruction, but the actual effect (or at least the unspoken desired effect) was educational modernization. The equipment provided includes the following: 1) desktop computers for students 2) laptop computers for teachers 3) projectors (which the teachers insist on calling "LCDs"... a practice which annoys me like nails on a chalkboard) I'm not sure if the 2.2B would also include peruntukan for setting up computer labs and other installation expenses. Some schools may have also gotten some digital cameras tossed in as well as part of the whole shebang, which would be used by school magazine and whatnot. Of course, cameras would have almost nothing whatsoever to do with science and maths... but still, IMHO, nice for schools to have. Point being... it may not be accurate to put the whole 2.2B in the "jom ubah language" ledger, it may be better to view it in a broader context. Having said that, this controversy does draw attention to the cincai way the government does things... the fallout in Penang is being revealed, now we can start picking at the Federal level as well. Regardless of whether or not the computer hardware purchases were done in a proper and competitive manner, this issue needs to come under scrutiny on the basic premise of proper execution and efficient administration. And of course... I think noone expects that the purchases were done in a proper and competitive manner to begin with! Hishamuddin stress balls now... ps - for the record, I have not had any business dealings with this projek, but I have had to help a couple of teachers with their laptops :-) I think there is a term for this kind of tactic, but it slips my mind now… not pork barreling, but something similar… where funds are allocated ostensibly in principle for one purpose, but in practice actually used to further a different agenda. In this case it seems the apparent goal was to introduce a change of medium of instruction, but the actual effect (or at least the unspoken desired effect) was educational modernization.

The equipment provided includes the following:
1) desktop computers for students
2) laptop computers for teachers
3) projectors (which the teachers insist on calling “LCDs”… a practice which annoys me like nails on a chalkboard)

I’m not sure if the 2.2B would also include peruntukan for setting up computer labs and other installation expenses. Some schools may have also gotten some digital cameras tossed in as well as part of the whole shebang, which would be used by school magazine and whatnot. Of course, cameras would have almost nothing whatsoever to do with science and maths… but still, IMHO, nice for schools to have.

Point being… it may not be accurate to put the whole 2.2B in the “jom ubah language” ledger, it may be better to view it in a broader context.

Having said that, this controversy does draw attention to the cincai way the government does things… the fallout in Penang is being revealed, now we can start picking at the Federal level as well.

Regardless of whether or not the computer hardware purchases were done in a proper and competitive manner, this issue needs to come under scrutiny on the basic premise of proper execution and efficient administration.

And of course… I think noone expects that the purchases were done in a proper and competitive manner to begin with! Hishamuddin stress balls now…

ps – for the record, I have not had any business dealings with this projek, but I have had to help a couple of teachers with their laptops :-)

]]> By: xtheman http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-111374 xtheman Wed, 14 May 2008 12:54:17 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-111374 I really like to know how many computers has been purchansed ? MMM ... let a mid-end computer in the market is caost abt 2500.... ok find let put it 3000. 2210000000/3000 so total computers have purchased is 736666. Wow !! a lot of computers indeed. Can someone pls help to tell how many schools do we have in Malaysia ? I really like to know doesn't it make any sense spending 2.21 billion for computers I really like to know how many computers has been purchansed ? MMM … let a mid-end computer in the market is caost abt 2500…. ok find let put it 3000.
2210000000/3000 so total computers have purchased is 736666. Wow !! a lot of computers indeed.

Can someone pls help to tell how many schools do we have in Malaysia ?

I really like to know doesn’t it make any sense spending 2.21 billion for computers

]]> By: Judges overpower government? http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-111373 Judges overpower government? Wed, 14 May 2008 12:49:19 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-111373 Can judge over rule government 's decision? If so, then the judge has higher authority than the government- but the judge, as civil servant of the governement, is paid by government, do you think they dare to overrule the government's decision? So, what is the value of the legal system? Can judge over rule government ’s decision? If so, then the judge has higher authority than the government- but the judge, as civil servant of the governement, is paid by government, do you think they dare to overrule the government’s decision? So, what is the value of the legal system?

]]> By: Nirmala Naidu http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/comment-page-1/#comment-111371 Nirmala Naidu Wed, 14 May 2008 12:37:10 +0000 http://jelas.info/2008/05/14/transition-costs-to-teach-sciencemaths-in-english-317-million-for-teachers-221-billion-for-computers/#comment-111371 With all the extravagant spending, this programme is a total failure. Teachers are still teaching Sc n Math in Bahasa. Why? Their command of the Eng language is atrocious. Whoever came up with this strategy is a total fool. How can u expect to improve ur language by teaching Sc n Math in English? More money should be spent in mastering the Eng language.Infact the Eng language has become worse-rojak. State level exam papers are full of grammatical mistakes. Students who answer the subjective questions with their own interpretation get no marks because they have a set answer to these questions.If the key words that the teacher recognizes is not there then she gives a zero for that question. Bollocks!! With all the extravagant spending, this programme is a total failure. Teachers are still teaching Sc n Math in Bahasa. Why? Their command of the Eng language is atrocious. Whoever came up with this strategy is a total fool. How can u expect to improve ur language by teaching Sc n Math in English? More money should be spent in mastering the Eng language.Infact the Eng language has become worse-rojak. State level exam papers are full of grammatical mistakes. Students who answer the subjective questions with their own interpretation get no marks because they have a set answer to these questions.If the key words that the teacher recognizes is not there then she gives a zero for that question. Bollocks!!

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